timetraveller:

 I'm so disappointed that Immortal Beloved isn't available- as that really is a ripper of a film

I'm picking up my copy of Immortal Beloved from the video shop today.  Do you have a dvd player ceedee??

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Just re-read that, talk about vague. Immortal Beloved is the one I ordered from America, it will be here in a month but I would love a copy of Impromptu if you have one to spare Bev.

 

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Ceedee

alive well and always kicking

Well I've watched Immortal Beloved and I also got to watch Impromptu yesterday.  Good movies Bev.  I had seen Immortal Beloved a long time ago but I hadn't seen Impromptu.  Weren't Hugh Grant and Judy Davis fabulous in their roles?? Actually it was well-acted all round.

I will just sit back and wait for everyone to come back in when they've had their chance to watch them and then we can dialogue!!   zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

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Well just finished watching, I loved it, was interested to see Barry Humphries in a small cameo role as the magistrate and when they play the 9th symphony at the end is just so spectacular.

I will be interested to hear what others think.

 

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Ceedee

alive well and always kicking

I'm about to watch it now. The delicious Inspector Lynley has just finished..

 

Will make a comment tomorrow- about my fave bits. I'll keep a look out for Dame Edna's friend...

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Its midnight now so I'll just jot down a few thoughts about more obvious things before I go to bed. I'll think about the storyline and characters and relationships etc tomorrow.

 The costuming etc was sumptious. Locations were magnificent. Very befitting for such an important subject.

Gary Oldman was fantastic as Ludwig. Very credible.

I disliked the character Giulietta - she annoyed me greatly. She didn't have any refinement for a lady of her social standing - her clothes were worn badly, her walk was sassy, and she ran in public! (maybe those things were common in Vienna?) I don't know if the character was supposed to be like that or if the actress was over-acting but she was a pain.

Isabella Rossellini was pretty good as the Countess. And so was Johanna, although she never seemed to age - Ludwig was white as a ghost in his final scene and she looked like she was 25 still. (bad makup lady) Barry Humphries actually was credible too - no over-acting or trace of Edna (or Sir Les thank goodness!) Whatever made them think to get him for the role?

Did you notice how many "loose women" there were?  The boys were having a field day! I can't believe more of them didn't get into trouble! The ones Ludwig ran around with didn't seem too worried about their good name!

It was interesting how the music underscored various scenes and that explanations of how the  various symphonies came about were interwoven with the storylines. Dont know if it was true, but it seemed many things that happened in Ludwig's life inspired symphonies.

I found I had to rewind many times to understand what was being said - who teaches these actors to mumble anyway??? Some things I missed out on were actually important and even rewinding didn't help! Annoying!

bye!

 

I agree that Johanna didn't age much in the film, there was a subtle hint of lines but with how the other's aged it didn't quite match. Isabella Rossalini was very good, it was for me a little disturbing watching as she has so much of her mother in her mannerisms as well as in her looks I  felt as if I was watching Ingrid at times and got them a little mixed up in my mind.

I didn't notice the mumbling really but then I watched in my bedroom with the door shut and the sound up. Barry Humphries did many of these little cameo roles similar to Noel Ferrier I suppose, the thing I like about Barry is his ability to completly move between one persona and another and keep them all separate. It can't be easy with Dame Edna, but he manages it perfectly.

The movie as a whole I found enthralling and Gary Oldman drew me along with his insight into the feelings of a brilliant musician and composer who couldn't hear what he created.

I will now try and get Impromptu which EZDVD said they would be able to get in quite quickly as it is available in Australia.

 

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Ceedee

alive well and always kicking

Just woke up and about to watch the film for the umpteenth time. As sometimes happens- films draw me in to wanting to know more about the story and this one more than most.

I was very comfortable with Johanna being the Beloved ( although it's speculation and never been proven .)

 In some ways for me, this explained the terrible custody battles Beethoven mounted against her to gain custody of Karl, his nephew.  So much the action of a lover scorned.

I wonder what other emotion could have generated such animosity between these two people throughout most of their lives?

This is an interesting site I found in my search to know more- here's the original lettre transcript.

http://www.lvbeethoven.com/Amours/ImmortalLettres.html

 

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I still adore this film after who knows how many viewings.

The star is the beautiful score of Beethoven's exquisite music.

I love the way it's interwoven into the story lines as Paola said.

Poignant moments for me are:

-Beethoven putting his head on the piano as he plays- so he can feel the vibrations as he can't hear the music.

 -The beautiful music as Napoleon's army ravages the countryside- and  bombards Vienna - and the shocking results of that.

-Beethoven giving her music and playing it as he tries to console her in her grief.

-Carl heading for the hill to commit suicide.

- The Ode to Joy sequence- Beethoven standing on stage not hearing- the night  shots- is still probably my favourite ever film sequence.

With regard to Barry Humphries- I recall him in the Getting of Wisdom in a dramatic role and think he may have been in some mini series as well.

It's still a film for me.

 I wish Gary Oldman was doing more of these chameleon roles. He manages to immerse himself totally into the characters- where you suspend belief that it's Gary Oldman.

Recent years- he's  been seen in Hollywood block busters- as the criminal mastermind/bad guy.But is playing some good guys roles in Harry Potter movies.

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There were so many tear-jerking scenes in that film and lots that leave an impression on me, especially when they involve children being hurt. So the ones I disliked were when the Contessa's son was killed (at first I thought her little daughter got squashed by the chandelier as well so I really felt it then) and the two scenes where Beethoven's father was smacking him on the side of the head (no wonder he went deaf) and later tried to find him to flog him late one night but Beethoven escaped. I really hate watching that sort of stuff.

I agree with Bev in that two of the memorable scenes were his head on the piano, and the end where Ode To Joy was performed. (showed Karl really did have no musical taste or ability after all when he first called that tune infantile).

I remember in music class at school Mr Murphy told us that Beethoven used to hit the piano keys so hard to play them so he could hear them that there is his piano in some museum somewhere that is wrecked.

For me that scene where he is playing with his head on the piano will be one which will stay with me for ever. I have been trying to think of another actor who could have played Beethoven so well but I can't think of one. Gary Oldman does such a brilliant job.

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Ceedee

alive well and always kicking

And if you have a look at some of the statues in Europe the resemblance is uncanny.

But don't you wonder why, if he loved her so much, he didn't claim her after his brother died.  Do you think there was any chance that Carl was actually Beethoven's son??

Cruel way to treat someone you love I reckon...........................

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AmethystAngel:

But don't you wonder why, if he loved her so much, he didn't claim her after his brother died.  Do you think there was any chance that Carl was actually Beethoven's son??

In my little fantasy world- it would be the case,Cherri.  But it's all speculation.

 I don't think Johanna as the Beloved has any sort of credibility with the experts. But makes a great yarn!

 

Carl was born  September 1806- and Kaspar had married Johanna in May 1806.

The letter was written in 1812-  and Kaspar died in 1815.

In my world - if it was her that he was supposed to have met- - his pride at the thought that she had rejected him- probably would have embittered him toward her- to the point of no return.

 And sent him down the path to take her son from her after Kaspar's death- although Kaspar had asked they share custody.

These days with all the DNA available- I wonder if they could ever establish such a thing?

 I did buy a book and have lost it in my travels before I read it- called 'Beethoven's Hair'.

A lock of his  authenticated hair had turned up somewhere and it was being tested to see what his medical condtion was at the time of his death. I wonder if they could have done DNA testing as well- 

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I have heard of another film which we all might like to watch and discuss. It is a French Language film called 'Conversations with my Gardner" Mother and Cree are raving about it so I am about to try and get it. I'll let you know if it is worth while getting.

 

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Ceedee

alive well and always kicking